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M. Trosino's avatar

RE: the supposed lonesomeness epidemic

IDK. I don't have a lot of "outside human input" and I'm not feeling the least bit sick. Natural immunity, or something else, maybe?

https://theconversation.com/being-alone-has-its-benefits-a-psychologist-flips-the-script-on-the-loneliness-epidemic-250742

As to questions "To stupefy and inspire."

Question:

Did Donald Trump slap tariffs on a pair of islands uninhabited by humans?

Answer:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-tariffs-heard-and-mcdonald-islands-penguins/

> UNESCO World Heritage says the Heard Island and McDonald Islands exist "in the complete absence" of human impact. <

Until now, that is.

But it's indeed downright *inspiring* to know that all those lousy penguins and seals will not be poaching our manufacturing jobs any longer.

https://copilot.microsoft.com/chats/3kkiXnLp5Pwo6AUh1hven

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JohnF's avatar

As markets melt down, I thought I'd share something on the lighter side. I was just doing an internet search for something. When I clicked on the search window in my browser, it brought up a list of "trending searches". At the top of the list (the #1 trending search) was "Heard Island and McDonald Island". These two islands are entirely populated by penguins but have now been awarded a 10% tariff for having taken unfair advantage of the United States (likely for decades).

It seems that these are two of the remotest places on earth. They are accessible only by sea and it takes roughly two weeks to sail there. On the plus side, they may be the only place left on earth where one can go and not be inundated with news about Trump and tariffs.

I may invest in a sailboat.

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M. Trosino's avatar

If the penguins and seals living there are smart, they'll close the border now before disaffected Americans start arriving by the boat load.

Carnival Cruise Lines could not be reached for comment about a rumored new offering in the works involving said islands, called an "Isolationist Cruise", which will be heartily endorsed by you-know-who for a compensatory slice of the action.

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JohnF's avatar

I've been reading further about the islands. Heard Island is 80% covered by ice and has an active volcano in the middle of it. The McDonald islands also have an active volcano, which erupted in 1996 and doubled the size of the largest of the islands (called, unhelpfully, McDonald Island). It seems that one needs a special permit from the Australian government to visit either place (there have only ever been two recorded landings on McDonald island).

I may have to rethink my plan to establish a guano refining operation to export fertilizer to the US now that there is a 10% tariff in place.

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Midge's avatar

"Our evolution did not include mirrors in which to reflect. Mirrors— 'looking glasses', as they were quaintly known—are a relatively recent technological invention: They don’t go back much farther than a couple paltry centuries."

"βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι’ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον· ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην." – "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

The mirror then was dim for being merely polished metal – https://biblehub.com/greek/2072.htm

Pre-Columbians also used polished obsidian mirrors, which are (checking...) still sold these days for decoration and, uh, divination (most of which I'd guess is some kind of New-Age-y stuff rather old custom).

Still pools of water also used to be used for astronomy (in both the Old World and pre-Columbian New, I think) – can you imagine how little light pollution there must have been for that to work?

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IncognitoG's avatar

You are correct, of course. Yet I’m still not quite willing to cede the point entirely. We didn’t evolve with mirrors easily accessible, although our kind knew their own image when they saw themselves reflected in those pools of water. And there are probably some bits of lost cultural knowledge about how to make or improve mirror-like objects from tens of thousands of years ago. That is, real experience with the elements teach disparate tribal groups certain ways to improve on what is observed in the world around them for better mirror-like objects.

We know enough about what we look like to others to want to check our work. Otherwise why would our forebears have invested so much in ways of seeing themselves?

What we look like is fundamentally a matter of communication, of strongly suggesting to other people what they *should* think of us. And in turn, what others reflect back to us about whether we’ve achieved the image we intended to project.

TBQH, not quite sure where I’m going with this so much as just noodling on the theme. Don’t mean to sound like I’m arguing with any particular end point in mind or anything…

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Midge's avatar

No worries!

More a matter of both archaeology and that particular Bible passage being nifty :-)

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Kurt's avatar

Quote of the day...

"You have to be very fond of men. Very, very fond. You have to be very fond of them to love them. Otherwise they're simply unbearable."

....Marguerite Duras

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BikerChick's avatar

Marguerite didn't meet the right man, poor gal.

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Kurt's avatar

She had a generally conflicted view of the world. A brief review of her history explains it.

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IncognitoG's avatar

As something to stick in my ear when eyes and hands are busy, I’ve been listening to Peter Robinson interviewing Frank Dikötter about Chinese history.

https://youtu.be/goEU7C1xmis?si=UOtDWG1iwNHLFa1U

Also worth a recommend is the Economist’s podcast biography series on a certain contemporary prc Big Cheese called “The Prince”—in case anyone has a trial subscription. Very interesting, and by the same journalist who did the “Scam Inc” series this year.

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Kurt's avatar

You might like "The Art of Being Ungoverned" by J.C. Scott...recently RIP. It is a fantastic book. It's overloaded with his research data which one can pretty much skip through to get to the meat of the matter, which is a beautiful overview of Chinese governance modeling.

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Kurt's avatar

Just finished the video. Very interesting. What's fascinating is Frank fails to tie all this together in review the history of the governance model of China. If history doesn't repeat itself but rhymes, this is a continuous loop rhyme. My wife researches governance models in Chinese history, and the model is uniform throughout 2+ millennia. I wouldn't disagree too hard with anything he said until the last 12-15 minutes, where he, and Niall, have the same misunderstanding. They've never lived "in" China and had family and close personal relationships with Party members. They continue to view the CPC as monolithic, when it is anything but. It's so much more complicated than academic outsiders understand.

But, great video. Frank's trilogy is foundational stuff; everyone should read it, but also understand there's a lot more under the hood.

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Kurt's avatar

Dikötter...everyone should read the trilogy. Thanks for the link.

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R.Rice's avatar

Thanks, that is interesting!

This reminds me of a few things I've seen lately. One is Eli Lakes "Breaking History" episode about Edward Said's book "Orientalism", and Said's complaint that the history of the Middle East written by westerners is a false one, and racist. And how this book was a catalyst for Islamist supporters and anti-zionists.

On the other hand, listening to "The Rest Is History" podcast answering readers questions, historians Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland respond to a similar complaint "all your stories are from a British perspective". They say, "well, yeah. We're British and produce for western listeners! Stick a fork in it if you don't like it!"

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IncognitoG's avatar

Said was a great rival of Bernard Lewis when it comes to Middle East historians. I’m more decidedly in the Lewis camp.

I associate Said more with the third-world liberationist mindset, which some might call a fundamentally Marxist perspective—certainly radical in nature.

The idea that there can be a pure and objective sanitized version of history has been bad for academic historians. They tend to be too academic in their use of jargon, writing for their own guild, and often impenetrable for a wider public.

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R.Rice's avatar

You know your stuff. That all concurs with the material presented in the podcast. Said was strongly influenced by Foucault's philosophy. That sucker seems to be a the center of a lot of our troubles.

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Kurt's avatar

Yeah, he was definitely an off ramp into stupidity. University professors marvel over the guy. I do not.

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IncognitoG's avatar

Have you read anything by Lewis, or seen any of his presentations? My gosh, the man was eloquent—and brilliant! I doubt many could rival the scope of his knowledge about the subject.

Since I was “in” linguistics, I got a bit more of Chomsky than I cared for, and Chomsky was a great compatriot of Said. It was tangential that I got to know about them. I’d almost forgotten about the Foucault angle, but, yeah: the moral relativists, cultural relativists, and Marxists were his intellectual pups.

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R.Rice's avatar

I know of Bernard Lewis, but really don't know much about him and haven't read any of his work. Sounds like I should know more about him!

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IncognitoG's avatar

This article of his from 1990 defined our understanding of the differences between the “Muslim World” and the Christian-heritage West.

https://pages.pomona.edu/~vis04747/h124/readings/lewis_roots_of_muslim_rage.pdf

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LucyTrice's avatar

It is one of those mornings. This item tickled my fancy - who knew it existed? Brilliant!

www.northerntool.com/products/jordan-manufacturing-9ft-half-market-crank-patio-umbrella

Not a link - I don't have the attention span to translate the mile long address into something unoffensive, so just a search suggestion.

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BikerChick's avatar

Ohhh, that could come in handy on the deck patio.

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LucyTrice's avatar

I'm glad somebody found it potentially useful!

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Kurt's avatar

It's Qingming Festival this weekend, often referred to as Tomb Sweeping Festival, or Spring Festival, but this Spring Festival is different from the main Spring Festival because it uses a different character in writing the name and it's the "official" time to start actively farming one's land.

The Tomb Sweeping part is about honoring one's ancestors by going to their tomb, making sure it's clean, burning fake money so they'll have funds in the afterlife, lighting candles and incense, or otherwise doing something nice for the ghosts.

The train station in our part of town had something like 150,000 pass through on their way to visit relatives and the highways are parking lots. We're staying right here and cooking good food. Our nephew is coming over, and my wife's students are coming by to honor their teacher.

There are parts of this place that are very attractive.

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CynthiaW's avatar

Sounds like a fun time for all, including ghosts.

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Kurt's avatar

It is. Holidays here are kinda cool because they're almost all related to agricultural events or timelines, and if it's not agricultural, it's about ancestor veneration, or ancestor veneration once removed, like the Lantern Lighting Festival and Dragon Boat Festival.

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Kurt's avatar

Who goes out to a restaurant by themselves? Anyone?

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M. Trosino's avatar

It's not that I'm anti-social or don't enjoy company. I just wouldn't be caught dead out in public with anyone willing to be caught out in public with me.

With apologies to that Marx guy not named Karl.

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LucyTrice's avatar

I took a weekend at the beach away from everybody and dined alone in a fancy seafood restaurant. I took my book.

Does having coffee alone in a coffee shop count? Again, accompanied by books and writing materials.

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Kurt's avatar

Having a book, or books, is great accompaniment.

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CynthiaW's avatar

I have done so, in my life, but I don't recall any time in the last dozen years or more.

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Kurt's avatar

I started reading some article about "Is it OK to go out to eat by yourself?"....and I lost interest about 1/3 of the way in and went out by my myself to get something to eat.

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R.Rice's avatar

The sensible thing to do.

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CynthiaW's avatar

Of course it's "okay". It just might not be something that usually happens in a person's life.

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Brian's avatar

This post makes me think of echo chambers, which are a big problem these days. People seem to think they’re thinking things through by interacting with others, but we all know that if you’re only interacting with those who agree with or think like you, that’s not happening.

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M. Trosino's avatar

What?... what?... what?... what?

I can't... can't... can't... Hear... hear... hear... You... you... you... you!!

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IncognitoG's avatar

Seems we can’t think right in groups *or in isolation, either*. Rats!

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R.Rice's avatar

My wife is so much more socially minded than I am, and seems better off for it. When the gatherings are closer to cocktail party chatter, I struggle. Is this worth my time? Is this a contest of "look at me"? On the other hand I think of literature with characters of great wit with great admiration. I can think of maybe just one of my best friends that fits that profile. In one on one situations, others are a joy to be with. In groups, so many fall back on political snark these days. At least guys have sports to talk about. Dunno. Except I need to keep trying harder.

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CynthiaW's avatar

"At least guys have sports to talk about."

Not all of them ... just like not all women have children or husbands to talk about.

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Brian's avatar

“That is, we aren’t able to think correctly when we cerebrate solo.” So you’re saying I shouldn’t pour myself a bourbon when nobody else is around? Oh wait…now I see.

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The original Optimum.net's avatar

I have been fascinated with this topic for a while. It has taken a lot of effort to be social and to socialize while living on a mountain in Vermont----especially when its NOT ski season. Being in a relationship has helped a great deal, but even before we met, I had a very strong routine of conversations, FaceTimes, group exercise walking (even in the pandemic) every day. The FT participants were the group with whom we went to Italy last summer.

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M. Trosino's avatar

RE: "It has taken a lot of effort to be social and to socialize while living on a mountain in Vermont----especially when its NOT ski season."

Yeah, but don't complain... when it comes to the effort required to be social and to socialize while living on a mountain, you could be living on a mountain in Georgia instead of one in Vermont...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katskhi_pillar

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The original Optimum.net's avatar

True dat.

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CynthiaW's avatar

After telling me on Wednesday that it was time to get excited about the underwear I ordered, Walmart is now telling me that the delivery will be delayed. If I jump in front of a dump truck, it's their fault for raising my hopes and then crushing them.

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M. Trosino's avatar

Um... keep this number on hand, just in case: 988

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Kurt's avatar

Delivery systems in China are amazing. Order a milk and orange juice from Sam's Club and it is at our door in 1 hour, wrapped in insulation with a frozen packet to keep it cold, no charge. I ordered a nice new full size bicycle tire air pump from Taobao...43元...about $6, made in China of course...and I picked it up at the depot downstairs 2 hours later. 2 HOURS. No charge. Big new cast iron enameled pot roast type pot...2 hours. Everything is like that. The delivery logistics here are unreal.

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CynthiaW's avatar

My theory is that they didn't actually have the underwear in stock at my local Walmart, even though they thought they did (per their website), so now they've had to get them shipped from somewhere else.

It's not a big deal, not like I'm underwearless or anything.

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IncognitoG's avatar

You’ll be giddy with anticipation, I’m sure.

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CynthiaW's avatar

I ordered something non-underwear from Amazon. Maybe that will arrive on schedule (tomorrow).

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R.Rice's avatar

My San Antonio Spurs brain couldn't help hoping I was going to see Manu Ginobili.

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Kurt's avatar

I finally got Manul.

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CynthiaW's avatar

Once you understand Manul, the whole universe makes sense.

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Kurt's avatar

It certainly made me feel better. Manul!

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CynthiaW's avatar

At higher levels of enlightenment, we have snow leopards.

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Kurt's avatar

We talked about Matthiessen's The Snow Leopard, didn't we...(?) I was on to the Snow Leopard years ago. I backtracked down to Manul, who is softer, fluffier, and more accessible.

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CynthiaW's avatar

Yes, we did. Manul engages with the pathetic primates more ... despises us on a personal level.

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BikerChick's avatar

I can’t think very well at 6:50 am to come up with an interesting comment on this subject. I do know I’ve never substituted this pocket toy with human interaction which is why the lockdowns were soul crushing for me.

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Phil H's avatar

“Humans are designed for dialogue, not monologue.”

Someone forgot to tell Jonah Goldberg, who monologues in “The Ruminant” each week.

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Kurt's avatar

:-)

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The original Optimum.net's avatar

Amen, Phil!

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CynthiaW's avatar

I'm talking back to Jonah. He just can't hear me.

Most written communication is monologue, or if not that, really, really slow dialogue.

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Kurt's avatar

He's not listening. He's too busy imagining he's saying something important.

I have a deep distrust for young men with carefully trimmed beards adopting poses intended to reflect deep understanding and comprehension of the world. It's Travis Bickle looking into the mirror.

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M. Trosino's avatar

🤣🤣🤣

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Midge's avatar

Is it good, then, that I've never seen JGold particularly well-groomed?

Hayes's beard, on the other hand... but by now, it's also too white to be young.

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C C Writer's avatar

I've met Jonah in person on more than one occasion. He was well groomed. He is also big and tall, which doesn't come across in photos.

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Kurt's avatar

I've just seen posed head shots. That was enough.

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Midge's avatar

I grew up singing with grownups who had (almost always) minor opera careers, and the difference between the head shots they're required to have for their jobs and how they look Sunday mornings, after quite possibly too little sleep from gigs the night before, and before they've had their coffee, was instructive.

I associate the difference less with vanity than with lucking into affordable competent potrait photographers. Even worked as the stylist for one once – and, the more you know me, the funnier *my* working as a stylist is!

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Kurt's avatar

Interesting, because a couple of my close friends have minor opera careers, and when we get together, there's always singing going on. They're artists, through and through. I don't know what they look like Sunday morning after a cabaret gig.

Youngster professional opinion providers are not artists. I like making fun of them.

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Kurt's avatar

I type pretty fast.

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M. Trosino's avatar

I tend to trip over my words and make unintelligible sounds when I try to type fast.

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CynthiaW's avatar

Yes, but if you published a book, it could take a year or two years before someone could publish a book "in reply" to your book.

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Kurt's avatar

I don't do "why" questions either.

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Kurt's avatar

I don't do counterfactuals. I type pretty fast.

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