Darn! I left to find a link, and somehow lost this page, and everything I wrote!!
Anyway, I agree, Marque. Very well put, and something that has been bothering me since social media and politics got together.
There is a place online that is actually the antithesis of this problem, and it’s called The Morning Meeting, from Mark Halperin, with his cohosts, Sean Spicer and Tim Hogan. They start with the most recent events happening with the campaigns, the candidates and/or the parties, and Spicer represents Republicans while Hogan represents Democrats. The entire meeting is 30 minutes, and starts at 9:00 Eastern time.
The thing I like is that every morning Halperin starts by reminding people that this is a place for discussion and learning, and he will not put up with bad behavior. He has people who are in the “audience” (it can be anyone, but he has some journalists and politicians, as well), who are encouraged to participate.
He selects people randomly (audience members can show an electronic “hand” to request participation), so the number of Democrats vs Republicans varies, but everyone is polite, and asks great questions. He always asks them who they are voting for, first, and why. There are a lot of smart, articulate people on both sides, and it’s been extremely helpful to hear what they believe, and what their concerns are.
If you like that, then Halperin also covers other happenings on YouTube, in his main show, 2WAY. I’ve included a link to his substack site, and hopefully, some of you will try it. For my husband and me, it’s a breath of fresh air. It’s good to see that people on both sides have concerns. Democrats are happy to see Harris pulling ahead, but they also want to hear more from her about policy. They are glad she’s taken more moderate positions, but they want to know why. Republicans who still support Trump see his problems, but they have greater concerns with how Democrats will run things. None of these people are mean spirited or crazy. It’s very helpful and refreshing, and it’s too bad we don’t see more of this.
Good morning. I had a lovely Sunday, getting together with friends. In the evening, I watched a recording of Mr. Stirewalt's television program, on which Mr. Williamson was a guest. At first I didn't recognize the latter without a beard. Their witty exchanges were made in such rapid-fire rhythm that the captions couldn't keep up with it. (It was a good palate cleanser after the opening interview with a Trump apologist, yuck.) It also occurred to me that what I was seeing was a sort of extension of the Dispatch's influence into media properties that can be considered Dispatch-adjacent. I think that is a good thing.
"We still have to relearn the social inhibitions now that the physical constraints that once made us circumspect have all been removed."
Nope. Nee. Nien. Nej. Ain't gonna' happen. Social behavior such as politeness, good manners and respect once unlearned isn't going to be relearned. Who's going to be the teacher?? The coarsening of society is an ongoing process that far too many people actually see as *progress*.
And they can all kiss my royal you-know-what, of coarse.
Not necessarily true, but you need someone in charge who makes it clear that this won’t be tolerated. I’ve posted a link to a great show.
All of these social media sites could restrict bad behavior, and if they did it consistently I believe people would come to realize it’s not acceptable if they want to be heard. Free speech doesn’t need to be rude.
Of course, free speech doesn't have to be rude. And yes, social media sites could indeed restrict bad behavior and promote good behavior if they wanted to, as the example you linked to apparently does. They are not *government* agencies; most are for-profit businesses and can censor / not censor or give people the boot as they see fit, the First Amendment notwithstanding. And this applies to *paid* subscribers on sites as well as unpaid.
But therein lies the rub: 'for profit'. And there's a lot more profit in negativity than positivity. Otherwise, news headlines and reporting in the media would read and look a whole lot differently than what we see and hear every day. So, I don't really expect the online world to change significantly.
But my comment was directed more toward real world culture and society than the online versions. I see much more inconsideration and rudeness displayed by people there now as opposed to in years past, and acts of courtesy and politeness have become the exception rather than the rule nearly everywhere I go. So, who gets to 'mediate' IRL behavior and impose 'community standards' concerning these traits writ large? All of us in general but no one in particular. And sadly, 'all of us in general' don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.
My opening for optimism is that supply rises to meet demand. If enough people are starting to demand good manners and respect--which means the concept is still around and understood--and if mechanisms become available for them to reinforce good behavior and discourage bad behavior, adjustments will be made. Even a mini-trend can grow and spread.
Well, I won't argue that something pretty small can 'grow and spread'. Covid comes to mind.
But seriously, I get what you're saying here, and I guess it's not absolutely impossible. My view is colored by the fact that in my 7+ decades I've never noticed these desirable traits to be on the 'upswing' in our society and culture. If anything, I find them much degraded from the years of my youth. But I realize this is also an "every-generation-viewpoint", in that the world is often seen as going to hell by some people after they reach a certain age.
And I guess I'm of a certain age myself where this particular subject is concerned.
I am a pretty good communicator online and off I think. I don't mine teasing people in a friendly way, but, I don't know that at could ever actually deliberately insult someone...I am pretty social and for most of my life I was a social butterfly...always happy to meet and talk to new people
I am very nervous, and trying not to despair...things seem to be accelerating pretty fast, which is scary... I honestly don't know what I will do if I lose the ability to read or drove, I can't quit working...and I will really mist comment sections...lol
The appt is at 4 Pm EST today..we shall see it there is any hope then
Good thoughts Marque, but I can’t spend too much time thinking about them or it will get in the way of building my brand as a social media influencer. I love the conveniences technology has provided us, including in communications. I agree with just about every observation you’ve described, yet when I think about expressing them I can’t help but think the reaction I’d get is “OK, Boomer.” I can only hope that the people who need to will relearn the inhibitions we’ve lost. Or they’ll just get exhausted with fighting and nastiness and just stop. I have the same crazy thoughts about our political dysfunction and our collective behavior around it. Ah, I’m such a dreamer and a kidder.
Sorry, I’m really pushing Mark Halperin this morning because he is managing to put good manners back in to social media. I’m not sure where his politics actually lie (I think he’s more conservative?), but when people are on his show, and mispronounce “Kamala,” he very politely reminds them of how it is pronounced. It doesn’t seem like much, but a lot of mispronunciations (as you know) are on purpose. I even heard him remind a black participant!
Winston Churchill was excellent at the bon mot retort or insult. He did it in person, or through some kind of personal missive to the person with whom he wanted to "engage." He would have been great on TwiX, though most of what he would have said would have had people scrambling for their dictionaries.
Whenever I see "TwiX" these days I think not so much of its current owner and his politics (actually, I try to think of him absolutely as little as possible), but of Jack Dorsey as both Earl and Sheamus all rolled into one and fighting with himself, since he can't seem to get his own 'ideology' sorted out...
Anybody ever write a “Letter to the Editor” when there was an issue that peeved you? I did once on gay marriage. 🫣 I’m still irritated it’s called “marriage.” I don’t believe in redefining words. It could’ve easily been called something different yet still have all the benefits of the union of a man and woman. I was scrolling Facebook around midnight last night and saw some posts of the northern lights from the previous night. I thought myself…hmmmm, I wonder if they’re visible tonight? I bundled up and walked out to the dock and sure enough, I saw them! I laid on the dock and watched the sky for a half hour. They weren’t very colorful but were very visible. I’ve not been able to sleep much because my dog has a huge swollen mass under her chin that came out of nowhere. I’m worried about her despite her not seeming to be in distress. I am getting a new stove delivered at 9 am then heading home to get her checked out. Is Elon Musk a celebrity? It’s hard to define him. I’d called him an entrepreneur.
I have written letters to the editor locally, and to magazines...my favorite was when Discover magazine published mine, there are been others though. They all weren't critical, most were asking questions...
I wasn’t a newspaper reader, though we had the local Springfield Shopper every morning.
Fatty tumors, iirc, are among the most common in aging dogs, and usually harmless so long as they don’t impede motion.
Musk was a celeb at least when he was assumed to be a Dem supporter, taking federal checks to run SpaceX. He got lots of glowing press for that, but the libertarian in me kept thinking: He’s rich because of the corporate welfare payment. Whatever his party affiliation nowadays, I take him as a Trump-like self-promoter who way, way oversells his accomplishments, most of which are based on stuff others actually invented and built. He also overpromises and under-delivers on everything to do with his car company. For ten years or more now, he’s said his robotaxi fleet of self-driving cars is within 12 months, for instance.
Morning. Yes, I know the feeling. Sometimes they just barely work to get me back under control and to keep me from making a bigger arse of myself online. They still work quite easily in in-person situations. So far.
I used to say a lot more that was negative than I do now. It doesn’t help. I’m sure not changing anyone’s mind when I go after them. I find NR comments to be the most challenging. People really let go there!
Assume the same behavior you would employ in a face to face interaction is a good rule of thumb. And avoid using the word you. Use I instead which is a basic conflict resolution technique. Those two things keep me mostly calm and rational sounding even when angry. But there is no real incentive for others online. We do love a zinger.
That said we kind of always have. I loved the book Pride and Prejudice as a kid. Not for the romance but for the revelation of the polite clever insult. A cutting turn of phrase has always been something we humans have admired it seems even in an age of politeness.
The deescalation technique of speaking in the first person is a good one. The biggest gripe I’ve heard about it when someone uses it is that this person sure is self-centered! What else could it possibly mean when he always talks about “I”? Well, it might mean that he’s trying to avoid fueling conflict.
The technological improvements of immediate communications seem to have just greased a slippery slope. We’re still learning as a society where the boundaries are, what to reward, and how to regain self-control.
Yeah, well sometimes one doesn't want an interesting discussion; one just wants to---in a witty manner, of course---let the other person have it.
I still remember the story about LBJ getting an annoying letter from a senator and responding something like: "It appears someone has gotten ahold of your letterhead and is sending idiotic letters under your name." Of course, LBJ was more...uh....direct than that.
There have been quite the enjoyable creative online insults that avoid expletives. I have usually upvoted insults in comment sections for being elaborate and creative, but I wouldn’t do that for outright rude ad hominem. Comments such as: “Nurse! Please check to see if the patient’s oxygen tubes have become dangerously kinked.” And suchlike.
“Moderators: Please send us better trolls. The ones we’ve dealt with in the past were more believable and stimulating than this one. He’s really beneath the standards we’ve come to expect around here.”
That’s where a certain commenter of the Gallic persuasion loses the game. He often starts off well enough, but soon descends irretrievably into the personal.
Darn! I left to find a link, and somehow lost this page, and everything I wrote!!
Anyway, I agree, Marque. Very well put, and something that has been bothering me since social media and politics got together.
There is a place online that is actually the antithesis of this problem, and it’s called The Morning Meeting, from Mark Halperin, with his cohosts, Sean Spicer and Tim Hogan. They start with the most recent events happening with the campaigns, the candidates and/or the parties, and Spicer represents Republicans while Hogan represents Democrats. The entire meeting is 30 minutes, and starts at 9:00 Eastern time.
The thing I like is that every morning Halperin starts by reminding people that this is a place for discussion and learning, and he will not put up with bad behavior. He has people who are in the “audience” (it can be anyone, but he has some journalists and politicians, as well), who are encouraged to participate.
He selects people randomly (audience members can show an electronic “hand” to request participation), so the number of Democrats vs Republicans varies, but everyone is polite, and asks great questions. He always asks them who they are voting for, first, and why. There are a lot of smart, articulate people on both sides, and it’s been extremely helpful to hear what they believe, and what their concerns are.
If you like that, then Halperin also covers other happenings on YouTube, in his main show, 2WAY. I’ve included a link to his substack site, and hopefully, some of you will try it. For my husband and me, it’s a breath of fresh air. It’s good to see that people on both sides have concerns. Democrats are happy to see Harris pulling ahead, but they also want to hear more from her about policy. They are glad she’s taken more moderate positions, but they want to know why. Republicans who still support Trump see his problems, but they have greater concerns with how Democrats will run things. None of these people are mean spirited or crazy. It’s very helpful and refreshing, and it’s too bad we don’t see more of this.
https://markhalperin.substack.com/
Good morning. I had a lovely Sunday, getting together with friends. In the evening, I watched a recording of Mr. Stirewalt's television program, on which Mr. Williamson was a guest. At first I didn't recognize the latter without a beard. Their witty exchanges were made in such rapid-fire rhythm that the captions couldn't keep up with it. (It was a good palate cleanser after the opening interview with a Trump apologist, yuck.) It also occurred to me that what I was seeing was a sort of extension of the Dispatch's influence into media properties that can be considered Dispatch-adjacent. I think that is a good thing.
This is brilliant. You've really nailed it. There is nothing I can add.
"We still have to relearn the social inhibitions now that the physical constraints that once made us circumspect have all been removed."
Nope. Nee. Nien. Nej. Ain't gonna' happen. Social behavior such as politeness, good manners and respect once unlearned isn't going to be relearned. Who's going to be the teacher?? The coarsening of society is an ongoing process that far too many people actually see as *progress*.
And they can all kiss my royal you-know-what, of coarse.
Not necessarily true, but you need someone in charge who makes it clear that this won’t be tolerated. I’ve posted a link to a great show.
All of these social media sites could restrict bad behavior, and if they did it consistently I believe people would come to realize it’s not acceptable if they want to be heard. Free speech doesn’t need to be rude.
Of course, free speech doesn't have to be rude. And yes, social media sites could indeed restrict bad behavior and promote good behavior if they wanted to, as the example you linked to apparently does. They are not *government* agencies; most are for-profit businesses and can censor / not censor or give people the boot as they see fit, the First Amendment notwithstanding. And this applies to *paid* subscribers on sites as well as unpaid.
But therein lies the rub: 'for profit'. And there's a lot more profit in negativity than positivity. Otherwise, news headlines and reporting in the media would read and look a whole lot differently than what we see and hear every day. So, I don't really expect the online world to change significantly.
But my comment was directed more toward real world culture and society than the online versions. I see much more inconsideration and rudeness displayed by people there now as opposed to in years past, and acts of courtesy and politeness have become the exception rather than the rule nearly everywhere I go. So, who gets to 'mediate' IRL behavior and impose 'community standards' concerning these traits writ large? All of us in general but no one in particular. And sadly, 'all of us in general' don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.
My opening for optimism is that supply rises to meet demand. If enough people are starting to demand good manners and respect--which means the concept is still around and understood--and if mechanisms become available for them to reinforce good behavior and discourage bad behavior, adjustments will be made. Even a mini-trend can grow and spread.
Well, I won't argue that something pretty small can 'grow and spread'. Covid comes to mind.
But seriously, I get what you're saying here, and I guess it's not absolutely impossible. My view is colored by the fact that in my 7+ decades I've never noticed these desirable traits to be on the 'upswing' in our society and culture. If anything, I find them much degraded from the years of my youth. But I realize this is also an "every-generation-viewpoint", in that the world is often seen as going to hell by some people after they reach a certain age.
And I guess I'm of a certain age myself where this particular subject is concerned.
You have a point. My counterpoint is the idea that when things get bad enough, there will be a reaction.
Well, C C, my reaction to your reply here is that I hope you're right, as I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong on this one.
I agree with your reaction to my reply!
Morning All
I am a pretty good communicator online and off I think. I don't mine teasing people in a friendly way, but, I don't know that at could ever actually deliberately insult someone...I am pretty social and for most of my life I was a social butterfly...always happy to meet and talk to new people
I am very nervous, and trying not to despair...things seem to be accelerating pretty fast, which is scary... I honestly don't know what I will do if I lose the ability to read or drove, I can't quit working...and I will really mist comment sections...lol
The appt is at 4 Pm EST today..we shall see it there is any hope then
Have a good Monday everyone
Hopes, prayers, grace and peace. I'd far rather lose my hearing than my sight.
Thanks Lucy, me too
The thing is several years ago I did lose all the hearing in my left ear, they don't kow why, it is nerve damage and can't be fixed...sigh
So, I coul d be semi blind, deaf and who knows what else...it is so frustrating
Hey Angie, just wanted to know you were on my mind. I hope your appointment went well.
Thank you Lucy I was going to post in the morning when everyone is likely to be here...but , here it my report for you now
Bad and good news on the eyes
When I was diagnosed , the left eye had a little bit of the MD...the right had none
What apparently has happened is the right eye went Wet , unlike the left,,,I didn't know it could do that
So, I have to see an opthamalogist /retina specialist in a week or two...and get the shots
, this is also hereditray and I just found out my mom has it and my grandmother ( her mother ) did..so who knows
Thanks for letting me know. I'm glad there was some good news.
You are welcome and I am glad too
I’m not always here, so please know I’m thinking of you, Angie. You are definitely a ray of sunshine. ❤️
Thanks, I will try to email after my appt and give you the scoop...
Hang tough, Angie. Lot's of folks will be keeping good thoughts for you.
Thanks Mike
Hopes and prayers for saving your vision, Angie.
Thanks Marque
Good thoughts Marque, but I can’t spend too much time thinking about them or it will get in the way of building my brand as a social media influencer. I love the conveniences technology has provided us, including in communications. I agree with just about every observation you’ve described, yet when I think about expressing them I can’t help but think the reaction I’d get is “OK, Boomer.” I can only hope that the people who need to will relearn the inhibitions we’ve lost. Or they’ll just get exhausted with fighting and nastiness and just stop. I have the same crazy thoughts about our political dysfunction and our collective behavior around it. Ah, I’m such a dreamer and a kidder.
Sorry, I’m really pushing Mark Halperin this morning because he is managing to put good manners back in to social media. I’m not sure where his politics actually lie (I think he’s more conservative?), but when people are on his show, and mispronounce “Kamala,” he very politely reminds them of how it is pronounced. It doesn’t seem like much, but a lot of mispronunciations (as you know) are on purpose. I even heard him remind a black participant!
Well, Brian, I'm glad you cleared things up with that last sentence. For a minute there I thought you were on drugs or something.
If anyone wants to get in touch, reach me at JoshDBlumenthal@gmail.com https://youtu.be/FkHCf6sjBgo?si=OORYotMyutgg626n
Live long and prosper.
What happened with Josh? I don't keep up with all the commenter "news."
Beats me. There seemed to be a growing hostility, but it escaped my ability to comprehend. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
It has been nice to see you, Josh.
So long, Josh!
Good morning. Cool morning with highs in the low 80s this PM.
The mothership is covering Ukraine’s incursion into Russian territory. Meanwhile FP has a story entitled, “Kamala’s Would-be Kissinger”
These are the coolest August temperatures I ever remember! In fact, we’ve had an exceptionally nice summer because it’s not so darn hot.
This may be your best essay yet.
Winston Churchill was excellent at the bon mot retort or insult. He did it in person, or through some kind of personal missive to the person with whom he wanted to "engage." He would have been great on TwiX, though most of what he would have said would have had people scrambling for their dictionaries.
Whenever I see "TwiX" these days I think not so much of its current owner and his politics (actually, I try to think of him absolutely as little as possible), but of Jack Dorsey as both Earl and Sheamus all rolled into one and fighting with himself, since he can't seem to get his own 'ideology' sorted out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62xLWZgx4Ko
Anybody ever write a “Letter to the Editor” when there was an issue that peeved you? I did once on gay marriage. 🫣 I’m still irritated it’s called “marriage.” I don’t believe in redefining words. It could’ve easily been called something different yet still have all the benefits of the union of a man and woman. I was scrolling Facebook around midnight last night and saw some posts of the northern lights from the previous night. I thought myself…hmmmm, I wonder if they’re visible tonight? I bundled up and walked out to the dock and sure enough, I saw them! I laid on the dock and watched the sky for a half hour. They weren’t very colorful but were very visible. I’ve not been able to sleep much because my dog has a huge swollen mass under her chin that came out of nowhere. I’m worried about her despite her not seeming to be in distress. I am getting a new stove delivered at 9 am then heading home to get her checked out. Is Elon Musk a celebrity? It’s hard to define him. I’d called him an entrepreneur.
I have written letters to the editor locally, and to magazines...my favorite was when Discover magazine published mine, there are been others though. They all weren't critical, most were asking questions...
I have written letters to the editor - on paper with a stamp and all - and had them published.
Re Elon Musk, he can be both a celebrity and an entrepreneur.
Hope your dog is ok.
I wasn’t a newspaper reader, though we had the local Springfield Shopper every morning.
Fatty tumors, iirc, are among the most common in aging dogs, and usually harmless so long as they don’t impede motion.
Musk was a celeb at least when he was assumed to be a Dem supporter, taking federal checks to run SpaceX. He got lots of glowing press for that, but the libertarian in me kept thinking: He’s rich because of the corporate welfare payment. Whatever his party affiliation nowadays, I take him as a Trump-like self-promoter who way, way oversells his accomplishments, most of which are based on stuff others actually invented and built. He also overpromises and under-delivers on everything to do with his car company. For ten years or more now, he’s said his robotaxi fleet of self-driving cars is within 12 months, for instance.
Take care of your pup.
Good morning.
Good essay. I have social inhibitions!
Morning. Yes, I know the feeling. Sometimes they just barely work to get me back under control and to keep me from making a bigger arse of myself online. They still work quite easily in in-person situations. So far.
I used to say a lot more that was negative than I do now. It doesn’t help. I’m sure not changing anyone’s mind when I go after them. I find NR comments to be the most challenging. People really let go there!
Assume the same behavior you would employ in a face to face interaction is a good rule of thumb. And avoid using the word you. Use I instead which is a basic conflict resolution technique. Those two things keep me mostly calm and rational sounding even when angry. But there is no real incentive for others online. We do love a zinger.
That said we kind of always have. I loved the book Pride and Prejudice as a kid. Not for the romance but for the revelation of the polite clever insult. A cutting turn of phrase has always been something we humans have admired it seems even in an age of politeness.
Its been a while! Hope all is well!
Exactly.
Yes, it does seem fundamental to human nature.
The deescalation technique of speaking in the first person is a good one. The biggest gripe I’ve heard about it when someone uses it is that this person sure is self-centered! What else could it possibly mean when he always talks about “I”? Well, it might mean that he’s trying to avoid fueling conflict.
The technological improvements of immediate communications seem to have just greased a slippery slope. We’re still learning as a society where the boundaries are, what to reward, and how to regain self-control.
"And avoid using the word you."
That's a big one for me. If I write, "I don't agree with this, because ...," instead of, "You're wrong!" I might get an interesting discussion.
Yeah, well sometimes one doesn't want an interesting discussion; one just wants to---in a witty manner, of course---let the other person have it.
I still remember the story about LBJ getting an annoying letter from a senator and responding something like: "It appears someone has gotten ahold of your letterhead and is sending idiotic letters under your name." Of course, LBJ was more...uh....direct than that.
That’s wonderful.
There have been quite the enjoyable creative online insults that avoid expletives. I have usually upvoted insults in comment sections for being elaborate and creative, but I wouldn’t do that for outright rude ad hominem. Comments such as: “Nurse! Please check to see if the patient’s oxygen tubes have become dangerously kinked.” And suchlike.
Oooh, I will use that one.
“Moderators: Please send us better trolls. The ones we’ve dealt with in the past were more believable and stimulating than this one. He’s really beneath the standards we’ve come to expect around here.”
Another good one, as long as there's no character limit.
I see the point there. It's worth noting that witty replies don't include, "You're wrong!" or, "That's not true!" or, "You are a/an (insulting word)!"
That’s where a certain commenter of the Gallic persuasion loses the game. He often starts off well enough, but soon descends irretrievably into the personal.
Well, sometimes he starts off with "Jonah, you're wrong about everythng, as usual."
I agree.
Very true.
Hi Ms. S S M! Haven’t seen you over here in quite some time. Hope all is well. How’s the babe?